Post by Randy C on Jun 28, 2006 23:12:21 GMT -4
Disclaimer: This thread was not written by MassPoker. It is written by a professional online poker player who wishes to remain anonymous. He has won several hundred thousand's of dollars playing online and is from Amherst, Massachusetts and goes to the University of Massachusetts.
Anyone who plays poker regularly has heard the term "Value Bet" used when discussing a hand.
For those of you who haven't, a simple definition would be making a bet (usually on the river) when you are confident that you will be called by a lesser hand. The term is commonly used when you are betting a mediocre hand on the end, but one that you feel is best.
Before I move forward I must advise that this is not just another "trick" to add to your arsenal.
Many weaker players tend to overuse certain concepts once they learn about them and it ends up costing them money instead of making it for them. A good example of this is check-raising a button bettor with middle pair, a good play against a habitual position bettor but a terrible one against someone who would only bet with top pair or better.
My advice is to use the information in this article to your benefit, but make sure you're not overusing the concept. After all, the reason value bets are profitable is because they will sometimes allow you to gain an extra bet on the river with a hand you would normally check.
So how exactly does one know when he is in a spot where he should make a bet for value? It's quite simple actually, and requires only simple hand reading skills in combination with a little knowledge of your opponent. Let's take a look at a couple sample hands and the thinking behind them:
1) I am sitting in a six handed $2/$4 limit game on PokerStars. I'm dealt Q J on the button and the three players in front of me fold. The game is pretty tight and I've been raising with a lot more hands than usual since my image is good and people are giving up a lot of pots to me.
The player in the small blind tends to overplay medium hands such as ATo as well as any suited ace, and I've seen him put in a cap preflop with AQo and KQs against a player who was a complete rock. He will however fold pretty frequently if he doesn't have something he likes.
The big blind is very weak and will usually fold to a raise or call and then check/fold the flop.
Now I know I advised to just fold QJo in most situations in my article on Hand Standards, but this is a special case. All signs point towards a raise in this spot since I will likely win the pot without having to make a hand and I do have two high cards with which to make top pair if someone does call my raise.
I put in the raise, and the small blind immediately makes it 3 bets to go. The big blind folds and while I really don't like my hand anymore, I obviously have to take a flop.
The Flop : K Q 7 There is $14 in the pot.
The small blind bets into me.
This isn't a flop that I'm happy with, though I did get a piece of it with middle pair. The flop is extremely dangerous with the King as well as the three-flush that I have no draw to. If this were a multiway pot, anything but a fold would certainly be considered suicide.
This situation is quite different as we are heads up, and I'm getting 8 to 1 to call.
The first thing I decide is that I cannot just fold or I am giving up way too much. There are simply too many bets in the pot to throw in the towel just yet. With my aggressive opponent in the SB and his tendency to reraise with A4s and other weak hands, I could actually have the best hand here, and he may also check the turn if a scary card comes.
With all of that in mind, should I call or raise?
I don't think I gain much by raising here since my opponent is unlikely to respect a raise on the small street and also could put me in a very bad spot by making it three bets to go.
The only reason I'd ever want to raise here would be to gain information about where I was at in the hand. Unfortunately, the board is such that he may reraise with JJ with the Jd or similar hands which I am currently beating. Since he may raise again with a draw, raising doesn't really help me out much since I still have no clue where I'm at. There is also the small possibility that my raise my win the pot immediately, but with both a K and Q on the flop, it is unlikely to succeed against a 3bettor.
I decide to just call and see what comes on the turn.
The Turn : K There is $18 in the pot.
The small blind bets.
This was an excellent Turn card since it didn't put another diamond on the board, and also couldn't have beaten me if I was ahead on the flop. (It is also less likely that my opponent has a King since another is on the board.)
While my opponent could very easily have trips, I still don't know where I stand except that my hand has just gotten stronger. I briefly consider raising to try for a free showdown, but realize that it's a bad idea for a couple of reasons. First, he will certainly reraise me with trip Kings, and probably also AQ making me either fold or put more money in while drawing dead or close to it. Second, he is tricky enough to possibly reraise the turn with just the nut flush draw and I'd have to lay my hand down. Third, even if I am ahead, if he is on a diamond flush draw and it gets there on the river, he will most likely bet into me again at which point I will have to call simply because the pot is huge. Hopefully you can see why raising the turn is a bad idea here.
I opt to just call again.
The River : 2 There is $26 in the pot.
The small blind checks quickly.
I really like my hand now since this player is not the type that would try to check-raise with trips on the end here, and he would certainly bet again with AQ if he had it. I also believe he would bet a worse Queen into me, so when he checked I put him on a smaller pair than the board like JJ, TT, 99 probably with a diamond since he bet the flop and turn. I also believe that he will call with any pair he has, and maybe even AJ high if he was that aggressive with it, so this is an excellent spot to put in a value bet on the river.
I bet, he calls, and my hand is good.
I checked the hand history and he actually had A T! It's amazing how poorly some people play after the flop.
Notice how I really hated my hand preflop and on the flop, but ended up being the one betting on the river in this hand. It's important to be thinking throughout the hand and trying to deduce what your opponent may have.
Most people would be content to simply check the river here and hope that their hand was good on such a dangerous board. My observation of this player and thinking throughout the hand ended up earning me an additional big bet here as he called with ace high.
2) This time I'm in a $3/$6 shorthanded game on PokerStars and I'm dealt Q Q in the big blind. Everyone folds to the small blind who is a very passive player. From what I've seen, he will bet out with top pair and then immediately slow down after being raised, and rarely raise the turn or river without the goods.
The passive small blind limps in and I raise.
It's worth noting also that the blinds on PokerStars 3/6 games are $1 and $3, making it very unprofitable to come in from the small with some of the lesser starting hands. My opponent probably doesn't take this into account though, and could be limping with virtually any two.
The Flop : K Q T There is $12 in the pot.
My opponent immediately bets into me.
This is one heck of an action flop, but clearly I don't mind much since I have middle set which is a very big hand.
Knowing my opponent's tendencies, I have a few ways I can play this hand. I could raise now and get him to call me down, or I could just call and then raise the turn and hope he had enough hand to call.
The deciding factor was that I'd seen him fold to turn raises in previous hands, but never to a flop raise if he held any pair.
So, I decided to just get the raise in on the flop and convince him to call me down with whatever he held. The reason this is right is because he wouldn't bet into me with a naked Jack and would need at least KJ, JT or two pair to bet out. Another piece of information that encourages the flop raise is that if he had AJ or J9 and had flopped the straight, he would reraise me immediately on the flop rather than slowplaying to the expensive street and it would then cost me less to draw to my full house. If I wait till the turn to raise, I simply cost myself more money if he has flopped the straight and reraises me.
I raise the flop and he just calls. This tells me that my hand is way good at this point and he has not flopped the straight but is probably drawing to it while also having a pair.
The Turn : J There is $18 in the pot.
The Jack on the turn is an interesting card. First, it completes the rainbow meaning that no flush draws are possible. It also puts four parts to a straight on the board which will usually freeze the action.
The small blind checks.
My read on this guy was that if he had just turned the straight, he would bet into me with it rather than going for a checkraise. He was not the type to get tricky, but would just bet whenever he had a strong hand. Because he checked here I was pretty sure that my hand was still good and that he probably turned two pair and would just call down with it.
Notice here how my read induces more profit on this hand than normal. The standard play here with a set would be to check behind on the turn and then just call the river so that you avoid a tough situation on the turn if you do get check-raised. You're giving yourself a free card to a full house and your hand could also still be good (but unlikely to be drawn out on), so you still call the river.
Since I knew this guy wouldn't go for a check-raise though, I went ahead and bet and he called.
The River : 4 There is $30 in the pot.
Again, I still felt my hand was good here, so I bet for value, he called, and I checked the hand history to see that he had KJ.
In this hand I ended up making an additional two big bets simply by reading my opponent's tendencies and betting a medium hand for value on a very dangerous board.
The point I want to make here is that you shouldn't be content to just check down your hand on the river if the betting action has told you that it should be good. Even on a dangerous board like KQJT I was able to value bet my three Queens.
Clearly you shouldn't get extreme here and start betting bottom pair for value, but paying attention is very important and will earn you extra money if you're observant enough to read your opponents and their tendencies.
Anyone who plays poker regularly has heard the term "Value Bet" used when discussing a hand.
For those of you who haven't, a simple definition would be making a bet (usually on the river) when you are confident that you will be called by a lesser hand. The term is commonly used when you are betting a mediocre hand on the end, but one that you feel is best.
Before I move forward I must advise that this is not just another "trick" to add to your arsenal.
Many weaker players tend to overuse certain concepts once they learn about them and it ends up costing them money instead of making it for them. A good example of this is check-raising a button bettor with middle pair, a good play against a habitual position bettor but a terrible one against someone who would only bet with top pair or better.
My advice is to use the information in this article to your benefit, but make sure you're not overusing the concept. After all, the reason value bets are profitable is because they will sometimes allow you to gain an extra bet on the river with a hand you would normally check.
So how exactly does one know when he is in a spot where he should make a bet for value? It's quite simple actually, and requires only simple hand reading skills in combination with a little knowledge of your opponent. Let's take a look at a couple sample hands and the thinking behind them:
1) I am sitting in a six handed $2/$4 limit game on PokerStars. I'm dealt Q J on the button and the three players in front of me fold. The game is pretty tight and I've been raising with a lot more hands than usual since my image is good and people are giving up a lot of pots to me.
The player in the small blind tends to overplay medium hands such as ATo as well as any suited ace, and I've seen him put in a cap preflop with AQo and KQs against a player who was a complete rock. He will however fold pretty frequently if he doesn't have something he likes.
The big blind is very weak and will usually fold to a raise or call and then check/fold the flop.
Now I know I advised to just fold QJo in most situations in my article on Hand Standards, but this is a special case. All signs point towards a raise in this spot since I will likely win the pot without having to make a hand and I do have two high cards with which to make top pair if someone does call my raise.
I put in the raise, and the small blind immediately makes it 3 bets to go. The big blind folds and while I really don't like my hand anymore, I obviously have to take a flop.
The Flop : K Q 7 There is $14 in the pot.
The small blind bets into me.
This isn't a flop that I'm happy with, though I did get a piece of it with middle pair. The flop is extremely dangerous with the King as well as the three-flush that I have no draw to. If this were a multiway pot, anything but a fold would certainly be considered suicide.
This situation is quite different as we are heads up, and I'm getting 8 to 1 to call.
The first thing I decide is that I cannot just fold or I am giving up way too much. There are simply too many bets in the pot to throw in the towel just yet. With my aggressive opponent in the SB and his tendency to reraise with A4s and other weak hands, I could actually have the best hand here, and he may also check the turn if a scary card comes.
With all of that in mind, should I call or raise?
I don't think I gain much by raising here since my opponent is unlikely to respect a raise on the small street and also could put me in a very bad spot by making it three bets to go.
The only reason I'd ever want to raise here would be to gain information about where I was at in the hand. Unfortunately, the board is such that he may reraise with JJ with the Jd or similar hands which I am currently beating. Since he may raise again with a draw, raising doesn't really help me out much since I still have no clue where I'm at. There is also the small possibility that my raise my win the pot immediately, but with both a K and Q on the flop, it is unlikely to succeed against a 3bettor.
I decide to just call and see what comes on the turn.
The Turn : K There is $18 in the pot.
The small blind bets.
This was an excellent Turn card since it didn't put another diamond on the board, and also couldn't have beaten me if I was ahead on the flop. (It is also less likely that my opponent has a King since another is on the board.)
While my opponent could very easily have trips, I still don't know where I stand except that my hand has just gotten stronger. I briefly consider raising to try for a free showdown, but realize that it's a bad idea for a couple of reasons. First, he will certainly reraise me with trip Kings, and probably also AQ making me either fold or put more money in while drawing dead or close to it. Second, he is tricky enough to possibly reraise the turn with just the nut flush draw and I'd have to lay my hand down. Third, even if I am ahead, if he is on a diamond flush draw and it gets there on the river, he will most likely bet into me again at which point I will have to call simply because the pot is huge. Hopefully you can see why raising the turn is a bad idea here.
I opt to just call again.
The River : 2 There is $26 in the pot.
The small blind checks quickly.
I really like my hand now since this player is not the type that would try to check-raise with trips on the end here, and he would certainly bet again with AQ if he had it. I also believe he would bet a worse Queen into me, so when he checked I put him on a smaller pair than the board like JJ, TT, 99 probably with a diamond since he bet the flop and turn. I also believe that he will call with any pair he has, and maybe even AJ high if he was that aggressive with it, so this is an excellent spot to put in a value bet on the river.
I bet, he calls, and my hand is good.
I checked the hand history and he actually had A T! It's amazing how poorly some people play after the flop.
Notice how I really hated my hand preflop and on the flop, but ended up being the one betting on the river in this hand. It's important to be thinking throughout the hand and trying to deduce what your opponent may have.
Most people would be content to simply check the river here and hope that their hand was good on such a dangerous board. My observation of this player and thinking throughout the hand ended up earning me an additional big bet here as he called with ace high.
2) This time I'm in a $3/$6 shorthanded game on PokerStars and I'm dealt Q Q in the big blind. Everyone folds to the small blind who is a very passive player. From what I've seen, he will bet out with top pair and then immediately slow down after being raised, and rarely raise the turn or river without the goods.
The passive small blind limps in and I raise.
It's worth noting also that the blinds on PokerStars 3/6 games are $1 and $3, making it very unprofitable to come in from the small with some of the lesser starting hands. My opponent probably doesn't take this into account though, and could be limping with virtually any two.
The Flop : K Q T There is $12 in the pot.
My opponent immediately bets into me.
This is one heck of an action flop, but clearly I don't mind much since I have middle set which is a very big hand.
Knowing my opponent's tendencies, I have a few ways I can play this hand. I could raise now and get him to call me down, or I could just call and then raise the turn and hope he had enough hand to call.
The deciding factor was that I'd seen him fold to turn raises in previous hands, but never to a flop raise if he held any pair.
So, I decided to just get the raise in on the flop and convince him to call me down with whatever he held. The reason this is right is because he wouldn't bet into me with a naked Jack and would need at least KJ, JT or two pair to bet out. Another piece of information that encourages the flop raise is that if he had AJ or J9 and had flopped the straight, he would reraise me immediately on the flop rather than slowplaying to the expensive street and it would then cost me less to draw to my full house. If I wait till the turn to raise, I simply cost myself more money if he has flopped the straight and reraises me.
I raise the flop and he just calls. This tells me that my hand is way good at this point and he has not flopped the straight but is probably drawing to it while also having a pair.
The Turn : J There is $18 in the pot.
The Jack on the turn is an interesting card. First, it completes the rainbow meaning that no flush draws are possible. It also puts four parts to a straight on the board which will usually freeze the action.
The small blind checks.
My read on this guy was that if he had just turned the straight, he would bet into me with it rather than going for a checkraise. He was not the type to get tricky, but would just bet whenever he had a strong hand. Because he checked here I was pretty sure that my hand was still good and that he probably turned two pair and would just call down with it.
Notice here how my read induces more profit on this hand than normal. The standard play here with a set would be to check behind on the turn and then just call the river so that you avoid a tough situation on the turn if you do get check-raised. You're giving yourself a free card to a full house and your hand could also still be good (but unlikely to be drawn out on), so you still call the river.
Since I knew this guy wouldn't go for a check-raise though, I went ahead and bet and he called.
The River : 4 There is $30 in the pot.
Again, I still felt my hand was good here, so I bet for value, he called, and I checked the hand history to see that he had KJ.
In this hand I ended up making an additional two big bets simply by reading my opponent's tendencies and betting a medium hand for value on a very dangerous board.
The point I want to make here is that you shouldn't be content to just check down your hand on the river if the betting action has told you that it should be good. Even on a dangerous board like KQJT I was able to value bet my three Queens.
Clearly you shouldn't get extreme here and start betting bottom pair for value, but paying attention is very important and will earn you extra money if you're observant enough to read your opponents and their tendencies.