Post by jdaddy on Dec 19, 2007 17:31:51 GMT -4
The Debate: Attached to aces?
by: Andrew Feldman
posted: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry
The beauty of poker is that 10 players could play the same hand 10 different ways. Granted, most of us would raise with aces preflop, but the amounts might be different. Or maybe the way we'd play them against different opponents would change our strategy.
In this week's debate, our hero is in the middle stages of a multitable tournament with pocket aces. After a tough flop hits, our hero will need to evaluate his options to make the best decision. Adam Small from PocketFives.com joins me for this week's debate.
As always, read below this week's debate for some of your feedback on the previous entry. Click here to submit your response, and you could be featured next week.
Let the debate begin …
Situation: Over 1,200 players started this no-limit hold 'em tournament, but only 542 remain. Hero is in middle position with pocket aces (Ah-Ac) and about an average stack of $5,000. After a player in early position raises to $450 (blinds $75/$150), hero needs to decide just how much to force the action.
Feldman: Without question here, we're raising. I don't want to see anyone else behind us join the action with a medium-strength hand if we call here. Although, I do love setting people up by flat calling with aces
Adam: The issue with reraising is always that at that point, you're giving away your hand, in large part. You definitely want to raise an amount that will make an all-in bet forceful and prudent on the flop so that you don't end up in a sticky situation.
Feldman: But we also want to make sure that we at least get some action. I think that raising to $1,500 is too much here. How about a little lower, like $1,150 or so?
Adam: The problem with raising to $1,150 is that you're giving weaker hands such as smaller pairs or suited connectors the proper odds to call while also giving them information that you're highly unlikely to let go of your hand on the flop. Raising to $1,350 means that if you get called, there'll be nearly $3,000 in the pot on the flop. Since you only have about $3,600 left, you can commit on the flop comfortably.
Feldman: Correct, but at this stage in the tournament, if your opponents are willing to risk over $1,000 chips a draw with a suited connector or low pocket pair, you're going to love it since most of the time the chips will be heading in your direction. I agree that almost regardless of the flop, we're still ready to put the rest of our chips in the middle postflop.
Action: Hero reraises to $1,200. The button and early position raiser both call.
Feldman: How do you feel now that we've got two callers in the mix? What do you think we need to watch out for? Obviously we're confident with our aces, but still, they're easily crackable as we've all seen.
Adam: Most players at this stage of the tournament are still relatively weak. They could be calling (incorrectly) with a reasonable range of hands including hands comprised of two "Broadway" cards and low pairs, but hero has $3,800 left, which is almost exactly what's in the pot, so there's no choice at all but to go all-in after the flop.
Feldman: So you are saying that no matter what the flop comes, you're going all-in?
Adam: Yes.
Action: The flop comes down Ks-Qs-Js.
Adam: That's an ugly board, for sure…but we still have no indication we're beat here. We can't check if it's checked to us, because we can't risk it being checked behind us. If an opponent has a hand like 7d-7s, they will most likely fold to our push, but if we let it check around and a spade comes, we're not going to win this crucial pot that will double our current stack
Feldman: I agree, but I think if you have the other players on what we spoke of initially, we're beat here. Two "Broadway" cards beat us, and I'd lean toward pocket jacks to call our reraise before as well. I don't love the spot we're in, but yes, we have to push if it gets checked to us.
Adam: I think it's a reasonable possibility that someone has a set or two pair here.
Action: The early position player pushes all-in and it's up to hero.
Feldman: I'm not sure we can call his bet here.
Adam: What do you think the player in early position has?
Feldman: I've got to figure that he has a hand like pocket jacks or pocket tens.
Adam: He could also have A-K, but knowing his background, he's a strong player and I think he has 10-10, J-J or possibly even Q-Q.
Feldman: So if he has A-K we're winning. Tens we're beating, but we have to face the straight draw and against pocket jacks we need to suck out big-time. Plus, we can't forget about the flush possibilities. So do we make the call? It's a very scary board and even if we're ahead at this point, we're going to have to fade the draws.
Adam: This is such a crucial spot. The thing is, if the early position is a strong player, he knows you have a big pair or A-K, neither of which you're likely to fold here. I think he has to be strong in this spot.
Feldman: His bet tells me that he's defending a big hand, and with the button covered as well, he's really putting the pressure on. Would he do that with a weaker hand if he essentially knows what we have at this point?
Adam:It looks like a set to me. I think the only other hand I could really see is As with another Broadway card. The problem is of course that you're getting 2-1 odds. If even a medium percentage of scenarios have you as a slight favorite, it's more or less an instacall.
Feldman: So you are willing to put your tournament life on the line in a situation in which we both know we could be in big trouble?
Adam: If I bust out, I can just go do something else. I'm willing to risk busting out repeatedly in order to give myself a better chance of becoming a dominant stack. If hero wins this pot, he'll be in great shape for the rest of the tournament. It's really hard for me to ever fold with that much in the pot.
So what happened?: Hero folded. The button instantly calls with pocket queens and the early position player flips over As-Kh. The turn is the 3c, but the river is the 7s giving the early-position player the pot
Feldman: A great fold by hero there, but one thing to consider in this debate is that we never suspected the button to join the action. We know at this point that we would've been in big trouble if we called. I think every once in a while you just need to remind yourself that you can't fall in love with aces.
by: Andrew Feldman
posted: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry
The beauty of poker is that 10 players could play the same hand 10 different ways. Granted, most of us would raise with aces preflop, but the amounts might be different. Or maybe the way we'd play them against different opponents would change our strategy.
In this week's debate, our hero is in the middle stages of a multitable tournament with pocket aces. After a tough flop hits, our hero will need to evaluate his options to make the best decision. Adam Small from PocketFives.com joins me for this week's debate.
As always, read below this week's debate for some of your feedback on the previous entry. Click here to submit your response, and you could be featured next week.
Let the debate begin …
Situation: Over 1,200 players started this no-limit hold 'em tournament, but only 542 remain. Hero is in middle position with pocket aces (Ah-Ac) and about an average stack of $5,000. After a player in early position raises to $450 (blinds $75/$150), hero needs to decide just how much to force the action.
Feldman: Without question here, we're raising. I don't want to see anyone else behind us join the action with a medium-strength hand if we call here. Although, I do love setting people up by flat calling with aces
Adam: The issue with reraising is always that at that point, you're giving away your hand, in large part. You definitely want to raise an amount that will make an all-in bet forceful and prudent on the flop so that you don't end up in a sticky situation.
Feldman: But we also want to make sure that we at least get some action. I think that raising to $1,500 is too much here. How about a little lower, like $1,150 or so?
Adam: The problem with raising to $1,150 is that you're giving weaker hands such as smaller pairs or suited connectors the proper odds to call while also giving them information that you're highly unlikely to let go of your hand on the flop. Raising to $1,350 means that if you get called, there'll be nearly $3,000 in the pot on the flop. Since you only have about $3,600 left, you can commit on the flop comfortably.
Feldman: Correct, but at this stage in the tournament, if your opponents are willing to risk over $1,000 chips a draw with a suited connector or low pocket pair, you're going to love it since most of the time the chips will be heading in your direction. I agree that almost regardless of the flop, we're still ready to put the rest of our chips in the middle postflop.
Action: Hero reraises to $1,200. The button and early position raiser both call.
Feldman: How do you feel now that we've got two callers in the mix? What do you think we need to watch out for? Obviously we're confident with our aces, but still, they're easily crackable as we've all seen.
Adam: Most players at this stage of the tournament are still relatively weak. They could be calling (incorrectly) with a reasonable range of hands including hands comprised of two "Broadway" cards and low pairs, but hero has $3,800 left, which is almost exactly what's in the pot, so there's no choice at all but to go all-in after the flop.
Feldman: So you are saying that no matter what the flop comes, you're going all-in?
Adam: Yes.
Action: The flop comes down Ks-Qs-Js.
Adam: That's an ugly board, for sure…but we still have no indication we're beat here. We can't check if it's checked to us, because we can't risk it being checked behind us. If an opponent has a hand like 7d-7s, they will most likely fold to our push, but if we let it check around and a spade comes, we're not going to win this crucial pot that will double our current stack
Feldman: I agree, but I think if you have the other players on what we spoke of initially, we're beat here. Two "Broadway" cards beat us, and I'd lean toward pocket jacks to call our reraise before as well. I don't love the spot we're in, but yes, we have to push if it gets checked to us.
Adam: I think it's a reasonable possibility that someone has a set or two pair here.
Action: The early position player pushes all-in and it's up to hero.
Feldman: I'm not sure we can call his bet here.
Adam: What do you think the player in early position has?
Feldman: I've got to figure that he has a hand like pocket jacks or pocket tens.
Adam: He could also have A-K, but knowing his background, he's a strong player and I think he has 10-10, J-J or possibly even Q-Q.
Feldman: So if he has A-K we're winning. Tens we're beating, but we have to face the straight draw and against pocket jacks we need to suck out big-time. Plus, we can't forget about the flush possibilities. So do we make the call? It's a very scary board and even if we're ahead at this point, we're going to have to fade the draws.
Adam: This is such a crucial spot. The thing is, if the early position is a strong player, he knows you have a big pair or A-K, neither of which you're likely to fold here. I think he has to be strong in this spot.
Feldman: His bet tells me that he's defending a big hand, and with the button covered as well, he's really putting the pressure on. Would he do that with a weaker hand if he essentially knows what we have at this point?
Adam:It looks like a set to me. I think the only other hand I could really see is As with another Broadway card. The problem is of course that you're getting 2-1 odds. If even a medium percentage of scenarios have you as a slight favorite, it's more or less an instacall.
Feldman: So you are willing to put your tournament life on the line in a situation in which we both know we could be in big trouble?
Adam: If I bust out, I can just go do something else. I'm willing to risk busting out repeatedly in order to give myself a better chance of becoming a dominant stack. If hero wins this pot, he'll be in great shape for the rest of the tournament. It's really hard for me to ever fold with that much in the pot.
So what happened?: Hero folded. The button instantly calls with pocket queens and the early position player flips over As-Kh. The turn is the 3c, but the river is the 7s giving the early-position player the pot
Feldman: A great fold by hero there, but one thing to consider in this debate is that we never suspected the button to join the action. We know at this point that we would've been in big trouble if we called. I think every once in a while you just need to remind yourself that you can't fall in love with aces.