nonleauge player's

[dalesbad29]

look it's not right when other non leauge player's play for leauge player's when they cant play for what ever reason.

most the time they play good but today i had the misfortune of playing at the same table as tony's son there was an all in in the hand. i was in that hand as well as tony's son the he bet's at the pot i had an ave as well but he had a king kicker i called and ask why bet then he bet again. he wound up with the pot trip seen it as well but we all know tony a d**n good POKER player wouldnt have bet at the pot with an all in !. but i guess what im saying is that it's just not right to have non leauge player's playing for you im so pissed right now it's not even funny. so i think somthing should be done about this non leauge players we all may have to miss a game or so and we dont have someone to play for us ! IT'S JUST NOT RIGHT now i have said my peace !
what do's everyone else think is it fair or am i the only one that feel's this way ?

DALESBAD29

[hoserhawk]

before I weigh in with my opinion on this let me first thank the league as a whole for helping me to become a better player all around. for me the opportunity to play some of the best players out there is why i joined, not about the money or possible prizes. as a player I wanted to get better so I could have a more reliant secondary income, and that is exactly what PPZ has allowed me to do. that being said, I do agree that there is something wrong with others playing under somebody’s name/account. i don’t see how it is fair to everybody else that people are getting league points for somebody else playing for them. is that allowed in live tournaments? if so, where do I sign up? can I go to the WS with a partner and saw you play today and I will play tomorrow? no. and really, is this any different? ma be, as the prize for winning is not any where near the same, but to me the idea is the same. some of us do not have the liberty of having another player, let alone a good player who can actually compete within this league, who can play for us when we cannot. I am for sure open to having more players, as it makes all of us, and the competition better, but is it not possible for those who want to play to do so on their own account? wouldn’t it feel better for lisa to actually beat all of us AND randy in a tournament rather than just playing for him?

[wtfadam]

I do agree Danny. The whole point of the league is to play against each other not us against a team. Besides by having them open up their own account adds more people to our league and makes it more challenging for everybody.

[dalesbad29]

ok let me say this now that i have cooled down a bit i joined the leauge for the competion and that we have here some of the best player's around.
and tony sorry if i was a bit harsh but it's hard to play against someone that i know then they play altogether different and make a rookie move like that i was like what the hell then i knew it wasnt you playing but it was to late then my chips were in and i shouldnt have called but the board paired 8's so thinking we would split but he had the king for a better kicker.
ok i lost no biggie not that i care about the entry fee but the points matter to me not for the prizes tho some are nice it's the rank amoung such good player's i do hope something will be done about this and i thank hoserhawk and adam for weighing in on this matter and hope other's will speake there mind on this matter. and it's not just lisa it's trip's wife tony's son an lisa that i know of but once again soory for ventingjust how i feel about it.
DALESBAD29

[klimpare]

nonleauge players

the owner off the bankroll must take decision who play and when we have no rule in the leauge that not forbid it

and if Bengt Sonnerts one off swedens best player come too klimpfjall this spring too i gone allow him too play whith my bankroll every evning and not like last spring he playd one game and i one you learn a lot by looking and talk

roger

[Triple B333]

I think my wife and i are a bit guilty. I dont use her to sit in for me when i cannot. I choose to let her play cause she wants to. She actually tels me that she wouldnt mind getting into the league. We have tryed to get another account going for her but Bodog forbids it. I apologize if what I have done seems unfair. I am usually sitting right next to her as she plays, coaching and giving advise. I do see your point Danny. It does seem a bit unfair that time constraints and scheduling conflict with you. I will foward these thoughts and views on to the big guy and see how he reacts to it. Cause here at the ZONE we aim to please lol. Burke

[Randy C]

OK...First, I want to say that I completely understand and recognize that it's frustrating to play and get beat by a non-league player or by someone who is playing in the place of a league player. This had never really been an issue until now, and so we'll have to address it.

Let me explain why I personally allowed my wife to play for me. First, Bodog only allows one account per computer. I have tried to set Lisa up with her own account, and they will not allow it. That's Bodog's security rules...not mine. So, it's not a matter of me NOT WANTING to get Lisa her own account, it's a matter of Bodog NOT ALLOWING it.

In my absence, I never expected Lisa to do as well as she did to be quite honest. I expected that I was doing you all a favor by letting her play where there would be additional money that was in the league game. I felt guilty that I couldn't be there, so I asked her to play...and she LOVED it! She loves all you guys like you are an extended family or something.

Quite honestly, I am embarassed really... I hadn't realized that some of you felt as you do about this issue. And you all have a point, too, so don't think for a moment that I disagree in any way, shape or form. However, I want to point out my feelings on this topic and we'll go from there...ok?

I get it from all sides...If there's too few people in a tourney...I hear about it. If there's extra's...I hear about it. If someone cannot make a tourney, I have often allowed for a substitution simply to make the league run smoother and so that people don't lose out...and not just those that cannot make it...also for those that show and want to make a decent payday at the end of the league tourney.

Unfortunately, I have a very serious medical issue that I just recently found out is worse than initially expected. This means that I simply will not make certain tourneys because I am physically unable to. That said, I won't be having a substitute player play in my place, but I am drawing the line at telling others that they cannot... Many of you have had substitutes at a particular time...Not all, but many and I have allowed them. This is the ONLY reason why I allowed Lisa to play in 2 games for me. The past 2 weeks I have asked her not to play for me because I heard that there was grumblings about her playing for me...and I felt it was in the best interests of the league that she not substitute for me.

As for Tony's son; Let me just start by saying that Tony has done more for this league than I even care to tell you right now. He, as are all of you...very dear and close friends of mine. I cherish Tony's friendship, and I simply NEVER want to alienate him away from this league, because certainly...Most certainly, this league will be severely crippled without Tony's presence, trust me when I tell you that! So, I ask you now...Is this issue REALLY worth the possibility of alienating a close friend?

Hoserhawk really captured the essence of our league when he said that he joined to become a better poker player. It's not about money, because none of us will get rich playing the league, but we WILL become better poker players all the way around and THAT will translate to more poker income...period! I think many leaguer's will agree that Tony has helped them become better poker player's. Tony has helped ME become a better poker player. Unfortunately, Tony has a crushing work schedule and I know that he only has his son play for much the same reason as I have Lisa play...so that there is more in the league pot. Tony could care less about the money, the points or anything else...But he does care about this league! That I know.

I did a little research, and ironically enough, PPZ isn't the only league that allows for substitutions. In fact, 3 of the 5 I checked allow them. Moreover, although the WSOP does NOT allow for substitutions, there are other major tourneys that do, in fact many European poker tourneys do that standardly. I will point out that we are NOT a single tourney event, we are an ongoing league. So that is something to consider as well.

Where we are a democratic league, I'll pose this question to vote on a poll, and the league will abide by the vote no matter the outcome. You will decide. I just hope that you will all consider EVERYTHING that I have outlined above, because this is the most difficult decision the league has ever faced.

All In,

Randy C~

[dalesbad29]

ok let me start by saying sorry to hear that randy.

2nd no i dont want to piss off tony for any reson i like him alot he is a good POKER player and an asset to the leauge.

now with that said burke i know tanya played when you were unable to make it do to working.


im sure you hear about it randy but never from me i would never ask to let a sub play for the simple fact i dont think it's fair period.

i thought we changed the time so that those who couldnt make it would be able to we shoulda just told those to find a sub. and if they wanted
to make a better payday at the end...well let them play on there bank roll lol !

as far as many have had sub's well the 1st ive heard about it not like i should have but think if it's our leauge then it shoud have been put to a vote like the later time slot.

as for grumbling's about lisa playing ive never said a word till now so wasnt me !

now as far as tony's son go's i guess if your not going to forbid it then maybe atleast post when the leauge player is going to have a sub maybe so we know not to play that person the same.

but at the end of the day it's all good ill play the rest of the year and then move on no big deal !

DALESBAD29

[doc333]

After reading all the posts, i am really not sure if i want to get in the middle of it!!! That said, i think we should all express our opinion.
First off, i like playing with everyone in the league, including all the SUBS. I don't play for the points because there would be no way to catch up if i tried. The reason being, i can't play the Sunday tourneys 90 percent of the time (because of work etc.)
To those that play for the points, i think it is unfair for the reasons already posted.
I'm not sure what can be done to make everyone happy, but i myself do not want to see anymore people leave The PPZ for reasons such as this.
Maybe you should not give points to anyone that subs for someone.(honor system lol) That way they can play and as long as they post it, everybody is happy. I don't know, just trying to think of anything that would help.


Excited to see the new site!!!


DOC333

[wtfadam]

As far as the having different accounts go like I told Randy I can use both my account and my fiance's account on my computer with the same IP address and have never had a problem with bodog about it. It was set up though on her computer with a different email address and credit card. In fact we have a different address, she uses our home address and I have all of my bills on my PO Box's address, which only cost's me 24 bucks a year to keep. I use it so all my bills are safe and I don't have to chance my address on them every time I move.

But if it's because of the IP address then there are software out there like firewalls that will scribble your IP address if some one wants to go that route.

I have to say that at first my thoughts where it wasn't fair for people who go out of there way to play in the league to try and get as much points as they can when they are too tired to play or just to busy and should be using the time to do other more important things in the real world. Of course playing against some one who gets to have some one pick up their slack when they are wither to tired or to sick to play didn't seem fair at all.

But since this is a more of a friendly league and it is family then I have to say I don't see why it shouldn't be alright to have a family member fill in or play for you if that's what you want. It's not as good as having two league members from the same family but it's better then having an empty seat. My only thing is that they let everyone know who they are so that we can play the person for what we know of them on here and not as the person who we think they are.


On another note Randy I had no idea that Lisa wasn't playing because of her feeling not wanted here. I just assumed that she was busy with taking care of you. She's a great player and should be here playing with us.

[Randy C]

...And some wonder why I am proud of the membership of our league! THIS discussion is one of the reasons why I am proud of this league. WE ARE A FAMILY TYPE LEAGUE...You folks inspire me to be a better poker player.

I really like what DOC wrote. He offered a very realistic solution to our dilemma and I think that we should investigate this a little more and come up with a solution that will make everyone comfortable. My major concern is for you all.

For Danny specifically...It wasn't you Danny. The grumblings were from a conversation that was witnessed at another Bodog table. It's really no big deal, and after serious contemplation, I realized that it simply wasn't fair to have my wife play for me and I get the points for it.

My reason for defending the subs is honestly for Tony's sake because I don't want to see him leave us. He's a HUGE asset to us, and we are SOOOOoooo fortunate to have him on board that it isn't even funny!

Danny...I don't want you to leave our league. You have come so far in this league that I consider you one of our "success stories". Fact is, I don't want to see anyone leave this league. Too many have come and go over petty (in my opinion) things and I would rather see us work through our differences.

Right now, I am working on the new website and I will be including a set of standard league rules that we will follow. Our league is going to grow exponentially in the next few months. I have been given a database with 1200 email addresses from people all over the country who play online poker. So, this is a GREAT boost for the league. Once the new site has been fine tuned and published, I will embark on the single largest email blitz we have ever undertaken and I expect to see the league grow to 3 to 4 times the size it is now!

Additionally, Tom and I will be teaching the poker course at the college in January and I expect that we will add about 10-15 new members from that to our league.

As more people become active, we will grow simply by word of mouth, just as we have on this small scale recently. It will be my job to keep this going and to see to it that the league run like clockwork. I will devote as much of my time to this league as neccessary to ensure its' success. In the interum, I just ask that you all bare with me and cut me just a bit of slck on the results...ok...because I honestly am right out straight.

Thanks all for the great discussion and the civility that followed.

All In,

Randy C~

[Tanya aka MrsTrip]

First of all I would just like to take a moment to thank everyone of the PPZ for allowing me to play. In the beginning, and yes I have been here since the beginning, I started off by sitting next to Burke as he would play his tournaments. I got to know people's names, where they lived, and what was going on in their life. Sometimes I ended up knowing more than I would have liked lol. Especially from HUCK...god I miss him. Where is he by the way???

Anyway...as time went on I actually got to sit in and play a little on my own. I have had the opportunity to play Randy (even though he beat me heads up) and Tom (which I finally beat after a long game). I enjoy chatting with Michelle, Danny and even teasing Tbone about the A-1!! They have helped in making me feel welcome. People were chatting with me, asking Burke how I was doing, and it made me feel like I was part of your group... your poker family.

I feel the same way as Lisa does now though, caught in the middle. Unsure if I am truly welcome or invited to participate.
Yes, I totally understand Danny's view on the situation. Trust me Burke hated the fact that I was getting involved with "HIS THING". But...I also believe that even though I am considered a "sub" that I am also part of the league. Believe me when I say I would love to join the league. I have felt that way since the beginning, however due to Bodog's rules I can't.

If it comes to it to where I will no longer be allowed to play then so be it. I won't hold any grudges and will continue to support the PPZ. I'm sure I will still see and play many of you on non-league games.

Good luck on the poker tables but you better watch out for Lisa and me! Hey, that's an idea. Maybe it's because we (meaning Lisa and I) are getting so good that we are better than you??!!!
Just kidding but it does give you something to think about!!!

[dalesbad29]

ok here's the thing i was a bit upset when i posted but i did truely feel this way and now with all the posting's yes this is a family typ leauge and the sub's are part of our family.

well those that i know tanya/lisa and yes tony's son i think doc and adam has the best idea's if there is going to be a sub tell us.

post it and let's just play poker i cant really fathem not playing or talking with tanya an lisa both very good poker player's.

now i make no appolegie's for what ive said or posted it is how i felt but after thinking about it and seeing these idea's there is no reson we cant settle this.

as for the web site i cant wait that is something we neeed badly and we have been paitent on standing's sure we have asked about it made joke's but i think we all understand your back problems so no sweat there.

[mkane2983]

hey I geuss I'm gulty too, but it has been me and my boyfriend have been playing under Naiobi since the begining. Mostly because we cant open a second account like evreyone has stated already. have no opinion about it one wat or another , but it does point out the fact that online you never know really who is playing.............

[Randy C]

Hey Michelle!

Glad you chimed in...Actually, we have come to a pretty good resolve already and I will be addressing it in a posting shortly. It seems that we will just post who the player is playing under the screen name so that people have some idea who they are playing...which is completely fair I think.

The league is going to grow very rapidly in the next few weeks starting in the next week or two, so it's really good that we got this out of the way now.

All In,

Randy C~